Often heralded as one of Hip Hop’s pioneers, Grandmaster Caz is one of the most important figures in Hip Hop history. A member of the legendary Cold Crush Brothers, Caz penned the lyrics to “Rapper’s Delight,” one of the most iconic Rap records of all time. His contributions laid the groundwork for the genre’s rise in the late 1970s and early 1980s.

The Hip Hop Museum caught up with Grandmaster Caz to discuss his early beginnings in Hip Hop, what entertainment icon stepped up to recognize his contributions to Hip Hop culture, why he will always respect Macklemore, and much more.

Adam Aziz: To start, can you take me back to the time when you wrote the lyrics to Big Hank’s verses on “Rapper’s Delight?”

Grandmaster Caz: I was writing for a live performance. I was writing rhymes; I wasn’t writing records. I wrote the rhymes, and they were all applicable to me. Each one of the verses that Hank used for “Rapper’s Delight” was a different rhyme. They were all separate. He put three of the most memorable rhymes together in the song. I wrote the lyrics at home, where I practiced with my group. 

AA: In the beginning, it seemed like a lot of rap focused on braggadocio lyrics, having fun, rocking the party, and girls. And while that remains today, over the years, a lot more of Rap has transitioned to talking about the streets and drugs. Given all that was happening back in the beginnings of Hip Hop, why do you think so much of early Hip Hop was focused on lighter fare and just having fun?

GC: We were trying to be entertainers and we were trying to escape the streets. Hip Hop was our alternative to the streets. Those people who wanted to be gangsters and wanted to be bullies and fight and be involved in drugs and stuff, they did that. We didn’t. 

I wanted no part of that kind of life or lifestyle. So, I gravitated toward the music. I’ve got people around that are murderers and shit—the next building from me. I can’t avoid that, but I don’t got to hang with them. Right. You know what I mean? So, yeah, Hip Hop, writing, and things like that were my alternatives to those.

AA: “Punk Rock Rap” by Cold Crush Brothers was one of the first examples of meshing Rap and Rock together. What was it about Punk music back then that was so intriguing? 

GC: We came up with that record concept. We didn’t have record companies or producers telling us what to do. Nobody guided our careers or anything. Whatever ideas we came up with in practice, we just turned them into a record. “Punk Rock Rap” was Kay Gee’s idea. 

Hip Hop was battling Disco at the time for domination, and Punk was kind of the bastard child of the Rock era. Each one was trying to vie for its own identity. I think we had that in common, and that’s the energy that drew us together.

AA: In 2015, you were featured on Macklemore & Ryan Lewis’s single “Downtown.” Macklemore catches a lot of flack within Hip Hop circles, but, from afar, he seems to have a true appreciation for Hip Hop culture. Was that your experience? And how did that collaboration come about?

GC: It was initiated by Ben (Macklemore), one of his management people and Big Daddy Kane. Big Daddy Kane connected us, and Macklemore said he wanted some old-school sound. He got me, Melle-Mel. He had the song all plotted out, and it wasn’t even a sure thing it was going to be used. 

We did the record, and a couple of days later, we got a call, and they said, “We love it; it’s going to be the first single.” They requested we come back out and shoot a video. We won an MTV award in Europe for it. We appeared on the MTV VMAs here. We were on Jimmy Fallon and Rockin’ New Year’s Eve. That one record put me in places no other vehicle had done as far as music. 

As far as the flack that Macklemore got, a lot of it was unfounded. A lot of people didn’t know a lot about Ben, but he’s a Hip Hop kid; he writes graffiti, he writes rhymes and shit for the hell of it. 

I’ve got no problems with Macklemore or Ryan Lewis. I’ve got a platinum record hanging up in my house behind that. And he didn’t need to use us or anything for credibility.

AA: I’m sure you’ve talked about this a million times. Jay’s lyric on “Izzo (H.O.V.A.)” when he says, “I’m overcharging labels for what they did to the Cold Crush,” is one of his most iconic lines. Joe Budden even reworked the line on his song “Idols,” saying, “We need more than overcharging for what they did to the Cold Crush.” Out of all the artists that have referenced you and the Cold Crush over the years talking about how you were mistreated, has any real, tangible action to give back to you ever followed over the years?

GC: Jay goes unnoticed for a lot of things that he does philanthropically. It’s not like he’s just sitting on a wad of cash and like f*ck everybody. That’s not the case. I didn’t expect anything from him. I don’t think he owes me anything. He’s never reached out to me personally or to the group. I’ve never heard anything but that quote. 

The only artist that ever really blessed me was Will Smith. 

AA: Will is another artist who doesn’t get much credit for being a true MC and a true representative of Hip Hop culture.

GC: It’s because he’s such a huge movie star. It kind of overshadowed his roots. People get surprised when they see him come out and break it down. They’re like, oh shit, like he does this for real. He does this for real. He always has. From the very first time I heard a recording of him and Jeff, he referenced me and Melle Mell as inspirations. In his book ‘Will’ he dedicated almost a chapter to me and my influence on him. 

LL Cool J also gave me a job and stock in his company, Rock The Bells. He didn’t have to do that.

AA: You were in and around some of the most iconic Rap battles ever. I would be remiss if I didn’t ask you about Drake Vs. Kendrick Lamar. What were your thoughts? Do you think it was the biggest Rap battle of all time?

GC: Of all time, no. I thought it was a good look for Hip Hop. Any battle that involves beef or violence, I’m not with. That’s not a good look for the culture, but if it’s lyrical and it happens on records, I think it’s a good look.

AA: We recently ended the 50th anniversary of Hip Hop celebrations. What do you think the next 50 years of Hip Hop will look like?

GC: I wish I could tell you I know that, but I really don’t. I didn’t know that Hip Hop would get to fifty years. Had I known that, I would have invested in it more heavily. But because of the knowledge that we have today and the availability of information now, the floodgates are open to doing more. 

You can’t go anywhere today and not find Hip Hop’s influence. The culture has engulfed the planet, and people use and exploit it in every way possible. And there’s never been any governing board for Hip Hop. There’s no one you have to answer to, no directors or chairman of Hip Hop, or nothing. So anybody could come and start a Hip Hop record company, a Hip Hop chicken store, a Hip Hop clothing store, or whatever because it’s not regulated.  

AA: Why do you think the live show has become such an afterthought in Hip Hop?

GC: Because you only had your live show early in Hip Hop. Your live show was your record. Your live show was everything. There weren’t any records yet. It was all about your live show. Once people started making records, they began to rest on the laurels of the record itself. Once you’ve got a popular record out there, all you have to do is throw the record on, and the crowd jumps and starts screaming and singing the record along with you. They’re like, okay, shit, I don’t have to do much.

Like Rakim, he’s not a showman. He’s a lyrical deity. If he just sits in a chair and raps, you should be happy. LL Cool J is a showman. 

We never had a hit record. Cold Crush’s notoriety came from our show, our live performances, and the influence we had on the generations to follow. 

AA: What will it mean for you to see The Hip Hop Museum open in late 2025?

GC: It means everything. Hip Hop being in the Bronx – having an institution dedicated to the culture and the foundation of Hip Hop, it has to be in the Bronx. It has to be in a brick-and-mortar structure that is a learning center, an exhibition center, and a place where you can find all things Hip Hop, the knowledge of all things Hip Hop.

Read more interviews on The Hip Hop Museum!