There are some producers whose sound is signature and instantly recognizable to the ear in Hip Hop production. Names like DJ Premier, Dr. Dre, and Neptunes branded a sound that helped shape generations of Rap music. Another name you can add to that list is Heatmakerz. While Heatmakerz first major label production was the song “The C-Quel” for Canibus off Canibus’s 2000 album ‘2000 B.C. (Before Can-I-Bus)’, the then-production duo truly carved out their space in Rap with their contributions to The Diplomats’ debut album,’ Diplomatic Immunity.’ Songs like “Dipset Anthem” and “I’m Ready” cemented Rsonist and Thrilla (Heatmakerz) as the fastest-rising producers in the game.

But in 2007, Thrilla departed Heatmakerz, leaving only Rsonist to carry the sound forward.

On the cusp of releasing the new instrumental Heatmakerz album, ‘The Anti-Social Experiment,’ The Hip Hop Museum caught up with Rsonist to talk about Thrilla’s departure, the creation of some of Heatmakerz’s most classic records, the one artist at the top of Rsonist’s bucket list to work with, and more.

Adam Aziz: Is Thrilla still part of Heatmakerz?

Rsonist: So people understand the dynamic of Heatmakerz and why it’s still called Heatmakerz. Heatmakerz was my team growing up. Me, Thrilla, my cousin, a bunch of people I grew up with. Me and Thrilla were the only two that physically made music. And as of 2007, when the music started to change a little bit and get away from what we did, Thrilla didn’t see the future like I saw the future. And that’s no knock to him. But he veered off and started doing things like real estate, trucking company, etc.

And I’m the type of person that when I start something, I can’t just walk away from it. I knew that people fucked with Heatmakerz, but I had to find a way to get people to care again. How do I get them to remember that we were the people who created this sound that they loved throughout their high school years and their college years? Over time, I figured it out. I got back into people’s ears, and at that point, Thrilla was out of music. It was just me, but I had to name it Heatmakerz. I wasn’t going to change the name. So when people hear Heatmakerz, they think it’s a team of us making music, but they would be surprised to know that all the content you’ve listened to from 2007 has been solely produced by me.

AA: I watched an interview with you from a year ago in which you said something like you didn’t even know if you were relevant anymore and were just happy to be here. Do you think producers get too hung up on relevancy?

R: Yeah, because it hits home even harder when you’re not the focus anymore. It’s a harder pill to swallow when you realize that you’re not hot anymore and when your whole image was based on that. The longer I sustain myself in this music industry, the more I realize that I don’t have to be viewed as number one, number two, or number three because, at the end of the day, all true Heatmakerz fans view me in their top five.

That’s cool with me because I understand that not everything is for everybody. So, people who aren’t Heatmakerz fans, I don’t knock them for not having me in their top five or not knowing my music. Many artists have millions of followers right now, and I don’t know their music. That doesn’t mean it’s not good.

Because whoever’s the best is only gonna be the best for a limited amount of time anyway, right? Like you look at, and not to bring Drake up, but you look at what Drake is going through right now. It’s a hard pill for him to swallow to understand that he might’ve lost on the biggest stage. You know what I mean? Because, again, he probably never could see himself in the second position or lower than that.

AA: Over the years, I would listen to Heatmakerz productions and think to myself, man, these dudes really love 80s music and hair metal riffs. Where does that love of 80s music come from?

R: You’ve got to remember, I’m Jamaican, so I grew up listening to reggae music. A lot of early Reggae music was used to copy old soul records, pop records, and 80s R&B records. Reggae music was almost sampling before sampling. They would take something that was done before and make a Reggae version of it and make it feel brand new.

I would hear a lot of Reggae music, and I would want to hear the original. Like, where did this come from? And then, in turn, I would end up sampling that sometimes. Reggae music led me to Country music. I was listening to Reggae music before I was listening to Hip Hop because my house was a Jamaican household, fresh from Jamaica, not like third generation, second generation. Our song library was straight Reggae music: Barrington Levy, Beres Hammond, Sanchez, and Bob Marley.

AA: I always found a lot of pain in Heatmakerz production but at the same time, it was hopeful and joyful. Do you agree? How do you describe the sound?

R: I always called it aggressive soul music. It’s a blend of soul and rock, with touches of garage band. Like a metal garage band mixed with soul almost. I do my drums a certain way, like the Heatmakerz sound: aggressive drums and different drum programming. And artists who mess with our music loved it. Artists that didn’t, they didn’t know how to rap to it. A lot of producers keep it safe with drum programming. Real one, two, boom, bap shit. I don’t; I’ve always tried to push the limit on drum programming or how I chop my samples.

I don’t try to change the formula too much because people who change the formula are just chasing what’s hot now, what they think is hot now, but music is cyclical. I don’t chase the wave. It hurts my heart when I hear producers from my era trying to make trap music or drill music, and they don’t know how to do it correctly, and it just sounds like an old guy trying to make young music. It’s like being the old guy in the club, and you’re the last one to know until a girl calls you mister. And you’re like, oh shit, I’m old. I don’t try to stand in a room where I’m competing with Metro Boomin and Mike Will Made It.

AA: I’m sure you’ve seen it many times on social media, but people post memes that say “stand for our national anthem,” and it’s Diplomats’ “Dipset Anthem.” Why do you think that record is so timeless?

R: When Dip Set came out, there was nothing like it. Everything they did stamped the time. When “Dipset Anthem” came out, the energy that was attached to that, plus the energy that Dip Set brought to the table, was a timeless moment that you were forced to deal with at that time. You couldn’t get away from that record because it wasn’t something you heard and forgot about. It came with a signature because here’s what I knew, too, being Jamaican. If I could find a way to bridge the two worlds, I would win for a long time. Because Jamaican people that didn’t know nothing about Dip Set, they knew the sample and it captured them off the first note and then they were forced to listen to it. American dudes who didn’t know that was a reggae sample loved Dip Set, and they just wanted to hear some vibes. It killed two birds with one stone.

AA: What do you remember about creating “I’m Ready.” How did you make that song – it’s so incredible.

R: From finding that record to sample (Barbara Mason’s “Yes, I’m Ready”)  to creating that record, that whole process took about an hour. I drove down to a record store in Manhattan called A1 and you could listen to the records in the store. I picked up the record, and as soon as I put the needle down, the first thing I heard was, “I’m ready to learn…” and then I put it on 45, and it sounded like it was an already made beat.  I’m like, I gotta get out here. I gotta go home and make this beat. I would typically go to the record store and buy ten to fifteen records, and I only bought one record that day, which is that record. I got back in the car drove home and as I’m driving home I’m humming the beat in my head and what I’m gonna do to it when I get home because it just sounded that special to me. When I got home, I made the beat in about fifteen minutes and listened to it on repeat for two hours by myself in the studio. I listened to it for about two hours on repeat, and I didn’t know how a rapper would rap to it because if you listen to that beat, it’s the swing beat. It’s not a straight, you know, 4-4 beat. It’s like a three-fourths swing to that beat.

Most rappers didn’t know how to rap to that, but I knew the beat was so special. I played it for Juelz. He had a song to it that night. We gave Dipset the CD of beats, and when we went to the studio, “I’m Ready” was the first record they played without Cam’s verse. It was just Juelz and Jim Jones. Cam put his verse on that night.

AA: I love your new project with Joell Ortiz called ‘W.A.R. (With All Respect).’ The music and lyrics on the album are something grown Hip Hop fans can relate to. Why do you think more artists don’t make music that resonates with the older Hip Hop fans?

R: Because you got to be comfortable with yourself to do that. It’s bigger than just making the record as an artist. Any good artist dives into their work. Like they say things that they truly mean. So, if you’re scared of exposing a specific part of your life, it’s hard to write those lyrics. Because a lot of artists want to look like they win on every record. I got the most money. I got the baddest chick. I drive the fastest car.  I live in the biggest house. So now when you got to show, you got to pull the curtain back and show them your real life or tell them about your real life, it’s hard for artists to do that because they feel like they’re going to lose the support of the people that’s been supporting them for this facade that they’ve been living for however many years.

I had this conversation with a friend of mine. When I was younger, I used to think that when you got to 35 or older, you didn’t have beef anymore. People didn’t do stupid shit. I thought that was childish shit. Like me realizing at this age that people still act like fucking complete idiots when it comes to certain shit or people still, two grown men can still have beef with each other. It’s almost like I lose hope for certain things. When I hear certain music from certain artists, I’m like, how are you in your mid to late 40s, and you’re still rapping about running down on this dude and doing that? I’m like, I get it. That’s where you from. But did you not evolve at all in the last 20 years? It’s almost disappointing to see. I loved music like that from those artists when I was in my 20s, and they were in their 20s because that was their life. Now, you’ve succeeded through the music industry, made money, and supported your family. Why are you still talking about clapping people and leaving them dead in the street and watching their blood drip?

AA: Is there one artist you’d love to work with on Heatmakerz production but haven’t had a chance to work with yet?

R: Jay-Z. That’s at the top of my bucket list. I feel like that has to happen at some point because the degrees of separation are so close. Me and Guru went to college together. Lenny S is my homeboy. Everything happens for a reason – I don’t believe in forcing anything. Beg for a record with Jay-Z and fuck around and watch it be his worst record. I’ll let it happen when it happens.

AA: I want to ask you about Juelz Santana’s debut album ‘From Me To U.’ For me, it’s one of the most underrated Hip Hop debuts of all time. What do you remember about creating that album?

R: When I first met Dip Set, Juelz started off damn near every record. He picked the records for himself, and then it turned out to be ‘Diplomatic Immunity’ because they were going to promote the whole team. ‘From Me To U’ was created at the same time as ‘Diplomatic Immunity’ because those were records that he was doing alongside the Diplomats’ records that were supposed to be part of his project. A lot of the records you heard on ‘Diplomatic Immunity’ were supposed to be on Juelz’s album.

AA: What producers do you love?

R: I’ve always been a big fan of Dr. Dre, just sonically, as far as how his music sounds. You know what I mean? How clear it sounds, how precise it sounds. RZA, I’ve always been a fan of RZA. Buckwild is my homeboy; I’ve always been a fan of Buck. As far as producers that I don’t know personally, but I always give them props because I think they’re dope…I like J.U.S.T.I.C.E. League a lot.

AA: You’re dropping the ‘Anti-Social Experiment‘ album in January. What’s the title about?

R: My homeboy I-20 from DTP, he’s a real creative dude. I told him I was doing an instrumental project. I said you’ve known me for about fifteen years now, man. I said I need a name that describes me. And within like five minutes, he was like, “yo, the anti-social experiment.” And I’m like, why do you say that? He’s like because you do your shit by yourself. You don’t really like to be around people. And I’m like, that name perfectly describes me. Cause it’s like everything I do is the anti-social experiment. It’s made behind closed doors, and it’s like, let’s see if it works. It’s like coming up with a formula behind closed doors. With this project, we’re going to do a contest where artists do songs to whatever beats they want to do songs to. And we pick the best song from each beat and put out ‘The Social Experiment.’

Read more interview on The Hip Hop Museum!